New light, hades? With that line of thinking, you could justify the WT only including publications back to 2000 on their site... 1996 was not that long ago. Darwin's book is over a hundred years old and it's still used... Or are you saying that because that single book was not reprinted, it should be rejected? That's not the only book that discusses atheistic as well as theistic fallacies that both groups use in argumentation.
Christ Alone
JoinedPosts by Christ Alone
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Christ Alone
I did. I said if a watch has a maker, and is less complex that nature, then why is it believing in fairy tales to believe that the universe had a maker?
I'll put this forward too, and atheists can feel free to disagree with me:
There is very little that would "prove" to an atheist that God exists other than Him appearing in the sky and saying "Ok guys, see? Is this enough proof for you?"
I'll illustrate it this way: As an atheist, suspend your disbelief for a second and imagine this. Let's say that the rapture ACTUALLY HAPPENS. Millions of people suddenly vanish from earth. Do you actually think that the majority of humans would actually believe that God came and took His people? Or would there be more "rational" explanations for the vanishing? There would be discussion of aliens. There would be discussion about government programs and technology that we didn't know existed. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of theories as to how it happened.
And this isn't new. Again, suspend your disbelief, and imagine being alive while Jesus was on earth. He performed hundreds of signs that were supernatural. Did that cause everyone to believe in Him? No. MOST people did NOT believe He was the Son of God. And many wouldn't today. There could be an outright miracle performed today, and it still would have a more "rational" explanation as to how it happened. But God doesn't force anyone to believe. That is why the essential quality that has to be there is faith. Atheists hate the term "faith" because it implies believing with no evidence. But this isn't the case. Logically I believe that every peice of technology has a maker. I don't see why it is so illogical to infer that the rest does as well. Faith is needed to attribute it to God. Faith takes the proof that is available and says "I believe that it must be God that is responsible".
And this isn't unique to Christians. We talked about Francis Collins either on this thread or another like this. He is not a Christian. But through all of his research in the area of DNA he infers that there MUST be a designer. He is a theistic evolutionist. He believes in science 100%. But would you accuse him of believing in some type of fairy tale because he has concluded that complex systems of information cannot have come about by accidental processes and chance? No. More respect is given to him because of his background and wealth of knowledge.
I can't help but think that no evidence would be enough for a solid athiest to believe in God. Atheists like to say that there is not enough proof. I could imagine some of the atheists on this board being present at some of the acts performed by the prophets in the Old Testament, and trying to find the reason behind what happened. Take the account where Elijah called down fire from heaven to "eat up" the water drentched wood and meat on the alter. Would not a "scientific mind" have a reasonable explanation for that event to show that it wasn't actually God, but was instead some sort of weather or other type of phenomenon?
Really, what proof would be enough proof other than God appearing in the sky? And would even THAT be enough proof? Jesus said and demonstrated that He was the exact image of God. However, the proofs that he showed were not enough for most of the people.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Christ Alone
Yes, it is a fallacy. On this site and on others, there is a tendency to replace arguemtn with name calling. The argument is constantly put forth that faith is "irrational"and that belief is "mythology" or "fairy tale".
I've never seen these words given definitions. I belive that is becauses definitionally belief and fairy tales cannot be equated. There is never a case made for why these different terms are synonymous. Instead, the words are used carelessly in order to taint the associations that someone has with belief and faith and liken it to a COMPLETELY different idea: fairy tales.
If an atheist calls faith irrational often enough, people will start to associate the two with each other, even when there is not a good reason to do so.
If I say that in our experience, everything has a maker, that makes sense. I knows this is a simple overused example, but please humor me. If I took a watch and said that it had no maker, I would be viewed as delusional. It obviously had a maker. But if I infer that same thing with the earth, I am called delusional and that I believe the same as those that would believe in unicorns and fairy tales. Do you see the OBVIOUS fallacy here? You cannot equate belief in a creator who is the original cause, with a mythological character. This line of reasoning (if it can be called that), merely seeks to make the believer look ridiculous instead of face the reasons for why the believer feels the way he/she does.
I think this line of thinking is very similar to a straw man. I've seen it happen also on this board where someone says "Look at the terrorism done in the name of God! Religion has been responsible for horrible atrocities, thus God can't exist." The believers view has been weakened in the eyes of others because of the focus on what PEOPLE have done. It has distorted the believers view, and so it makes it easier to knock it down.
Now, atheists are not the only ones that use these fallacies, obviously. Stephen Naylor Thomas, a philosopher and author of Practical Reasoning in Natural Language , ties in how atheism (as well as theism) commits the ignorantiam fallacy when it claims existential affirmation via denying evidence to the contrary when he says:
This fallacy occurs in both of the following examples: There is insufficient evidence to establish that God exists. Therefore, God does not exist. There is no proof that God does not exist. Therefore, God exists.
The reasoning in both these arguments is fallacious, because ignorance or lack of proof or evidence about a claim establishes neither that it is true nor that it is false. pp. 321-22.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Christ Alone
Ooh, thanks tec. I love it!
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templelijah
by turtleturtle inis templelijah serious when he posted this to his blog?.
http://templelijah.wordpress.com/gb-8k-infiltration/gb-stephen-lett-flashes-666-hand-sign/.
what is your take on this elijah?
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Christ Alone
I use the a-ok sign all the time... I didn't even know it meant that. Does that mean I belong to the worldwide church of satan too :-)
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Christ Alone
I tend to think the "do you believe in fairies or unicorns" argument that I see the newer atheists bring up is a fallacy. A fallacy that some atheists deny making. It's exaggerating for the mere purpose of trying to make the opposing side look ridiculous. There's gotta be a better argument.
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Truth in Translation and Phillip Harner's JBL article
by NCC-1701 inif this topic has appeared in the forum before, please accept my apologies.. just wanted to share what i wrote about jason beduhn's handling of phillip harner's article in the journal of biblical literature (1973) in the book, "truth in translation" for those who may have their own copy of it.. it's a bit lenghthy, but i wanted to record as much of harner's thoughts as possible to understand his position.
i hope it is helpful to someone.. .
a friend recently offered his copy of jason david beduhn's "truth in translation" for me to read.
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Christ Alone
It's funny thinking of jws loving t in t because it isn't completely damning to the nwt. You know that they don't understand what the heck it's saying though. They know nothing about Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, or translating. They read it, shake their head yes at the points that seem to favor the nwt, and no at the points that point out its flaws.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-28-2012 WT Study (WORLD END)
by blondie inunited nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm.
rev.
how many jws think the great tribulation = armageddon.
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Christ Alone
Wow. Sometimes I forget how screwed up their explanation of end times prophecy is. You don't even have to be a Christian anymore to see how messed up their interpretations are.
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553
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo inuntil recently, i had never encountered this word "believers" used as it is being used on this board, to describe pejoratively a group of people.
it's not clear to me whether they scorn all who have a faith of some sort.
do they include buddhists, hindus, followers of the baha'i faith, followers of the cargo cult, native americans along with christians, or is it just christians who are honoured with this epithet?.
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Christ Alone
Zid, the bible does teach that God exists outside the constraints of time. There are many scriptures that deal with this.
So, your only 'evidence' or 'proof' for the existence of some ill-defined 'god' is highly subjective and intensely personal... And most definitely NOT able to be observed by all onlookers...
That is how I see it. God, in my belief, IS subjective and highly personal. We can argue science all day and pretend we(believers) understand and can fully explain God. But when it comes down to it, for me, God must be experienced rather than "proved".
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what are the JW rules once baptised??
by Kate82 inon my other post 'thinking of becoming a jw' people mentioned that once i was baptised i would be told / given rules of what i can / cant do, things like: how i act, dress, how i can have sex with my husband??
what i can and cant eat ( according to some research ive done).
i would be really interested to hear as many of these rules now - as i think its too late after one is baptised.. i would be grateful of as many as possible about anything any topic even thouse i havent mentioned.. thanks x.
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Christ Alone
As was brought out by a jw on Kate's other thread, if you don't agree with them, you don't love god or the bible.